Not the “Best Buy” My Dad Ever Made - HDTV Purchase Horror Story - Pasadena, Ca
This article is regarding a purchase made at :
Best Buy/Magnolia Store - 3415 E Foothill Blvd, Pasadena, 91107 - (626) 351-9367
Update: A potential Lawsuit has been filed. Click here to find more details.
Yes, the title is a bit too dramatic. Maybe it should be called, “My Dad Didn’t Get the HDTV Features That He Requested.
My family’s nightmare HDTV purchase experience. Please read if you plan on buying an HDTV from an electronics superstore in Pasadena, Ca. Â This story has generated over 33,000 page views since it was first posted.
The shortened version of the story if you don’t have time to read the entire post:
My dad was looking for an HDTV that was capable of accepting a 1080P video source from a Blu ray or HD DVD player. He did some research online, but he still had questions. He decided to go to the store and ask the sales representative a few questions. The sales rep assured him that the television that he was purchasing was capable of accepting a 1080p video source via the HDMI port. It was later found out that this television will NEVER be able to accept a 1080p. The native resolution of the television is 1080p, but it offers no way to input any video source at a 1080p resolution without converting it to 1080i and then upconverting it to 1080p. The store says that it is Sony’s problem and not the store’s problem. I feel that my dad didn’t get the features that he requested.
Summary of the comments:
A. It is the buyer’s problem and you should have done more research online.
B. It is the store’s issue and they should make things right.
Read the full post below if you don’t mind the a very long story with tons of whining.
An HDTV is a must for all home theater enthusiasts, so it was no surprise that my father wanted to get one. He wanted to purchase a next gen DVD player and he knew it was time to start looking for a new television. He works long hours and saved for many years in order to be able to afford an LCD rear projection HDTV. He shopped around for several months trying to find a good deal. He knew the features that he wanted, but he noticed that the salespeople didn’t always know what they were talking about. One store told him one thing and another store told him something else, so it was tough finding a TV that had all of the features that he was looking for.
Ken Crane is a store that specializes in home theater, televisions, and audio equipment. He decided that a place like Ken Crane would offer the most knowledgeable sales people to answer his questions. The only problem with Ken Crane is that you often find yourself paying a little extra because they can’t always match the electronic superstore prices. After a few visits to Ken Cranes and other specialty stores over a several month span, the televisions were still too expensive. My dad decided that he had to move his search for an HDTV to the more affordable electronic superstores. Things would have been much better if he would have just spent a few hundred dollars more�and purchased a TV from this store.
You have to shop ALL of the major electronic stores for televisions because not all models are carried by all stores. The major stores in the Pasadena, California area are Best Buy, Circuit City, and the Good Guys. Many of these stores have salespeople who appear to be regular people. They don’t seem to have any real expertise in any one area of sales. I am not putting them down, I understand that most of them do a great job and it would be impossible to specialize in all 10,000 items in the store. My father decided to shop at the electronics superstore that offered the best buy that he could find. They had just expanded and added a new home theater department that offered “an exceptional experience from the moment you walk through our doors. After reading their website that claimed to offer knowledgeable consultants, my father decided to purchase his new HDTV from them. With their upgraded home theatre department that ran under a different name, these people at least came off as people who specialized in home theater equipment.
I want to point out that he would have purchased the television from the specialty store, but the televisions were out of his price range. Specialty stores rarely have sales, so you can’t get a television that retails for $4000 for $3600. I assume it is because the volume of sales is much less and they have to keep more profit from items to pay employee and leasing costs.
My dad had done some basic searching for HDTV’s online and he read about HD-DVD and Blu Ray, so he knew that he wanted a TV that supported a 1080p input on the video side. This was something that he expressed to the kind salesperson. For privacy sakes, let’s call the sales professional Frank. My dad looked around the sales floor and found a Sony TV that looked great. It was one of the 10-15 HDTV’s that he had done general research on. He called over Frank to ask him a few questions about the television. My dad explained to Frank that he planned on getting the Sony Playstation 3 to take advantage of the Blu Ray player, so he wanted to know if the Sony HDTV was capable of accepting the 1080p signal via the HDMI port. My dad had been reading about HD televisions that only displayed maximum resolutions of 720p and 1080i. Frank assured him that “yes” and further explained that the TV was capable of accepting 1080p resolution via the HDMI input location at the rear of the TV. When my dad asked if the salesperson could write on that the TV was capable of accepting a 1080p input via HDMI. It was even pointed out that the sales receipt would state 1080p as part of the description. My dad had a few other questions about the extended warranty and was ready to make the deal. Frank was kind enough to throw in a TV stand at a discounted price. My father later purchased an extended warranty directly from Sony.
A few days later the television arrived and looked great. It was a $3,600 television, so it had better look great. My father upgraded his cable package and was watching HDTV. Over the air broadcast are only 720P and 1080i, so he couldn’t really try out the full resolution of 1080p until the he purchased a Sony Playstation 3 or the Xbox 360 HD-DVD add on. Several months later I had read that Microsoft was releasing a firmware upgrade that would allow the HD-DVD drive to output full 1080p resolution. My dad rushed to Target to buy the external drive for $199. I had chipped in some Target gift cards that I had received for Christmas. The picture clarity looked great, but the television would only display the HD-DVD’s in the 1080i resolution. I read that my dad’s particular HDTV didn’t accept a 1080p signal via the component video input. My dad was out of luck and would have to wait for a Sony Playstation 3 to be available. The Playstation 3 is a Sony product and the HDTV is Sony, so we figured the television should have no problem displaying in the 1080p full resolution. Guess what? No luck after attempting several hook ups and even trying a new HDMI cable.
This had us both confused as to why this wasn’t working. We had double and triple checked our cables and set up. We even checked the settings on the Sony Playstation and television. Not a thing that we tried made any difference. It was time to research this issue online.
I immediately searched the model number online: Sony 60 inch�SXRD Projection HDTV KDS-R60XBR1
I eventually found an interesting article on the SonyStyle.com eSupport website.
http://www.iq.sony.com/srvs/autoresponsev4.asp?id=427127
The text below comes directly from the Sony eSupport site.
Does the television support a 1080p signal from a connected video source? No. None of the input jacks on the television have the capability of receiving a 1080p signal; trying to input a 1080p signal into the TV will result in a blank or distorted picture on the screen. If you are connecting a video device that is outputting a 1080p signal, the video device will need to be reconfigured to output at a different resolution, such as 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i.The television display, however, does have a native resolution of 1080p. This means that any supported signal (480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i) that is input to the TV will be up-converted from its original resolution and displayed in 1080p.
That was all the explanation that I thought that we needed, so we emailed the electronic store’s customer feedback department. I included all of my research and the note above that came directly from SonyStyle’s website. I also included a screenshot of the official manual that makes no mention of 1080p in the entire manual. We were contacted within a week of our initial email. This all sounds good so far, right? At this point we really didn’t have much to complain about. They were addressing the issue. My dad received a call from one of the floor managers and was told that they were researching the issue and they would be contacting us shortly. After several days we decided to contact the floor manager again and we were told that they would need to send over a technician to look at the problem. They stated that this television could display 1080p, but they had to check the settings. They scheduled a technician to come over a few days later. My dad got out of work early to meet the technician who was supposed to arrive between 2 and 3:00 PM. When 4PM came around and we hadn’t been notified that the technician was running late, we called the manager’s telephone number and were told that he was out of the office. My dad was then told that he would be transferred to someone who would let him know when the technician was going to arrive. After being put on hold once for five minutes and another time for 30 minutes, we called back from another line in the house and were told that the technician was out sick. My dad asked why they put him on hold if the technician wasn’t even available. He was told that they would have to reschedule. He explained to them that he had already taken time off from work to meet the technician, so he wouldn’t be able to reschedule. They said that they would need to speak to someone and then call us back. They called back 30 minutes later to say that they were sending over installers/delivery people.
Two nice gentlemen came over and basically found out the same thing that we had already informed them of in our initial email complaint. We were told that they would explain the situation to the manager and that he would contact us shortly. After several days without a response, my dad contacted the manager via email. The manager stated that he attempted to call several times, but he must have dialed the wrong number. In our second email complaint, we pointed out that the installers verified the information that we had initially pointed out in our complaint. It was our thought that the consumer should not be responsible for incorrect information that was provided by a sales professional. My dad pointed out that he specifically asked the sales professional if the HDTV was capable of receiving a 1080p video signal via the HDMI cable and he was told YES by a person who he considered a PROFESSIONAL. He pointed out that this was not something that was mentioned in passing, he specifically pointed out that he wanted a television capable of accepting a 1080p video signal via the HDMI port and he was specifically told that the television would accept the 1080p signal.
My father was basically told that it was not the stores problem. He said that it is a problem that we would have to address with Sony. He stated that they would be kind enough to contact Sony for us to see how they are dealing with these issues. It was the store that provided my dad with incorrect information, it was not Sony. If Sony provided the sales team with incorrect information, that is a problem that the store needs to take up with Sony. The store should make things right with the customer. The only reason the television was purchased was because of the incorrect information that was provided by the salesperson. If the salesperson would have just said that they were not sure or they would have to check…that would be one thing. Without question or hesitation the salesperson gave an answer to my dad and the salesperson made a sale. The manager said that the television is a 1080P television. It has a native resolution of 1080p, but it does not have the capability of accepting a 1080p video signal via the rear inputs. That is as good as having a Hemi powered muscle car that can’t go faster than 25 miles an hour.
The store manger was supposed to contact my father on Wednesday and today is already Saturday. I’ll keep you all updated on the status of this issue. I am hoping that they make things right. At this point, I think that my dad may even accept a refund, but then he loses his extended warranty that he purchased from Sony. We have asked the store to exchange the television for the updated model that accepts a 1080p video input via the HDMI input. When this television was purchased, the forums and Cnet reviews were fairly vague in their description of the TV. It received great reviews and I believe that it was voted as the best LCD television of the year. This issue of the 1080p native resolution was not something that was widely written about. You can find articles that discuss it now, but at the time it was difficult to find any information. The information from any Sony Publications seemed to vary. The casual consumer doesn’t know what native resolution refers to.
We normally get great service from this particular store. Several people in the comments are writing that we plan on suing the store. That was never mentioned in this blog posting. I was just curious if anyone had a similar situation at any of the major electronic superstores or with the specific model of television that I am writing about. I am not trying to come down on all sales associates at electronic super stores. I know that this is something that can easily be fixed by the store. This could have been the once piece of incorrect information that this particular sales person gave out all year. I just want my dad to get the features that he asked for. I don’t think that people understand that you can Google the model number for his particular HDTV and get much more information on it today than you could several months ago. The consumer gets hit with so many terms that it is often difficult to keep up to date with them all. I hear 1080p HD being described as TRUE HD, Full HD, and Full 1080p. The old school way of doing things was to go into the store and ask questions about a product. Not all consumers are DIGG users that have been raised online. I think that a majority of people do research online and go into stores to ask any questions that they cannot find answers to online.
The television actually looks great. I don’t think that anyone is complaining that he purchased a low quality television. The one complaint is that he asked for one thing and he didn’t get what he asked for. At the time of purchase, it was very difficult to find any 1080p source material. Months later he finally got a hold of the Playstation 3 and that is when he noticed something was wrong. If he would have had the PS3 on day one, he would have tested it and taken the television back the next day. It is not a matter of being stuck with a bad television because the television looks great. HD-DVD and Blu ray movies look wonderful, bright, and crisp in color when displayed on this television. At most this is a matter of wanting to get the features that my father asked for.
I fully understand why people comment that he should have done his research. He did do some research and some of the information was unclear, so he relied on a sales professional. I know how to check for this information online, but this was not a purchase that I made. My dad spends a very short portion of his week online. I would guess that he spends 10 minutes a week online and mostly to check the weather, movie showtimes, or upcoming DVD releases. It is easy to say that he should have done more research and the information is easily available. My dad isn’t a television manufacturer and isn’t in the television industry.
I researched online to see if anyone else had confusion or issues with this television. The third reviewer down had a similar problemAmazon.com Reviewer named D. Paik.Hidef forums user RadTuck also had questions.User Jerry Melton on HDGuru.com was also upset.Stephen C. was also unaware of this issue.
*****UPDATE****** 02/27/07 It has been almost two weeks since the manager at the Pasadena location has attempted to get in contact with us. He was supposed to get back to us last Wednesday, but he never did. Not even hitting the Digg frontpage with approximately 70,000 page views has gotten a reaction from the store. We are considering filing an official complaint with the BBB or calling their corporate offices. I would at least expect a response,but this shows that they really don’t care about our situation. It is time to get serious with this issue.
*****UPDATE**** 03/28/07 It has been another month since my last conversation with the Magnolia manager. No effort has been made to contact us. The initial response from the corporate office was great, but it appears to no longer matter. The “buzz” from this article being promoted to the Digg.com frontpage has died and we are currently looking for more solutions. Feel free to email or respond if you have any ideas.
*****UPATE*** 08/24/07 Still no word from the store. Things appear to be even worse because now the television is displaying a “greenish” color against white backgrounds.� We also found out that “Frank” no longer works for the store and wasn’t nice enough to let us know that.� The store has not done a thing to make things better.� This has been one of the most disappointing purchases that my father has ever made.
February 17th, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Sorry to sound like an ass here, but you said it yourself the sales people are not very knowledgeable, yet when it comes to buying an expensive tv you took their word for it , not only that but you said your father shopped around for several months and knew what he wanted to buy, so then why didn’t you father ever bother to read the specifications online about the model he was interested in ?
February 17th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
I would have to agree with Martin. I am 32 years old and have NEVER met a totally competent sales “professional” at any of the big chain stores. Never trust a sales person. My advise to all out there reading this is “Do your own research”. Use sites like AVS Forums, get copies of the specs from the manufactures web sites. Don’t ever buy a HDTV on an impulse buy and once you decide on the TV (or any consumer electronics item you want) tell the sales guy you want to see the owners manual for your item and re-verify the specs in the manual. Also I should mention bring a pad and paper with you to the store. Write down the model number of the item and Google it. If your dad had done that he would have seen that this TV is not what he wanted.
February 17th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
Whether the father should have read the specs and manual is not the point here. Is the store responsible for selling the TV based on a sales representative’s statement? I realize that “caveat emptor” applies in all purchases we make, but that should not relieve the store of responsibility when a salesman lies. Ultimately a store is liable for the statements made by its representative, especially when they characterize him as a “professional” who is experienced in the product being purchased.
Martin and Mr_Pat are basically blaming the customer for believing BB’s “sales professional”. You both believe that the customer should pay for the store’s lies? And that the store has no responsibility at all? Shame!
I would take it right to small claims court. They are usually good up to $5,000, and this is exactly the kind of case they are meant for.
February 17th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Dear Son of “My Father,”
I’ve worked in retail for a long while now, and I can agree with you that most “professional” salespersons don’t know what they are doing. However, it is wrong for you to totally pin all of the blame on “them,” because that is stereotyping and stereotyping is always wrong. In this situation however, I strongly believe that you and your “father” are partially (not totally) the ones to blame, and this is why.
No matter what brick and mortar store that you visit, each item on display has a display card or “license plate.” This informative card has all of the specs of the product, and for legal reasons, it is 100% accurate. Despite inevitable seldom price flaws, the information regarding the specs of the product will always be accurate, and this is to prevent anyone from filing a suit in small claims court.
Granted, you and your father may have not looked at the card or realized that it said on there “Native 1080p Resolution,” but the “several months of research” should have been for that specific Sony TV, and not just about any general TV.
When you are going to throw almost 4 grand on a product, find the specific product first, and research that one thoroughly. Yes, Frank should know the correct information, but he is just human, and humans make mistakes.
So it is right to say in some cases that the “professional” salesperson has partial blame and responsibility, but you and your father should rightfully receive the other part of blame and responsibility because you didn’t look at the informative card, and you didn’t research that specific model beforehand.
If you take this to small claims court, you will lose. They will tell you that the information was right in front of you, the BOX of the TV had the information, the manual and guide had the information, and that you had plenty of time to realize that it didn’t support your 1080p resolution within the return/refund time of the product.
I’m sorry, but blogging this time won’t get you a refund or noticed.
Personally I liked your story, and I also liked how you had your Google ads at the end to whip up some quick bucks. Put those towards your next HDTV, but please make sure to first research it next time.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:09 am
I recently ran into problems from BB with a Sony HDTV. Let me first start of by saying your father made a huge mistake going with any type of Sony HDTV. The service man that came out to work on my TV said sony’s were the most likely to need service. (The system I had was beyond horrid.) This being said now I will help you.
BB will always give you the run around threats will do no good. I must have had people coming to my house to service a non serviceable tv atleast 10 times.
Finally after all of the BS I ended up sending a letter to the CEO of the company before anything got done. If it were me, I would give up on your local store and search the internet for information on the home office, who the ceo is, the address and such. If you want something done about it talk to the head honcho and things will happen for you. He will not accept a phone call but he will read a letter. Make sure that someone has to sign for the letter so do the Certified Mail. It might cost you a buck or 2 but atleast you know the CEO will get it.
Within a weeks time I received 2 phone calls from higher ups and had a new tv in my home.
P.S. If you can replace the tv get something other than Sony!
February 18th, 2007 at 12:17 am
I have a few things to add. Yes this was a long tragic story, I know the feeling to when you realized that you bought the wrong thing and all hope is lost. I completely sympathize with you on that regards. However if we are going to play the blame game (and we clearly are because you want to sue them in a small claims court) I would have to say you are in fact responsible for the whole thing, but you are human just like the sales clerk, you bought something that you thought was different, however you said you spent a long time researching this, so I bet your good at reading long annoying spec sheets. so why couldn’t you read this one? You are dealing with almost 4G’s here Why couldn’t you read one last manual before you made your decision. Yeah this guy is supposed to be a “professional” but you can’t honestly say that in your (your fathers) “professional” career as being a cement finisher, you have never done anything that was not quite up to par with standards. Once again let me point out I fully sympathize with you on regards of you bought the wrong thing, and I know this sounds really harsh and you are not are probably going to get mad at me (a random internet user…), but man it up.
Here is my advice.
1. Drop the claim,
2. Pick up your receipt and go back to Best Buy.
3. Explain…in short…what the problem was. (no need to get angry in this step)
4. Get a new (possibly better TV),
5. be happy that you got the discounted stand.
and Live life.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:21 am
[…] This letter is in response to: “Not the ‘Best Buy’ My Dad Ever Made HDTV PURCHASE HORROR STORY” […]
February 18th, 2007 at 12:25 am
Your dad didn’t even have to search the set online as others suggested.
All he had to do was ask the clerk “Can you show me where it says 1080p?” If the clerk couldn’t do that then no sale. Period!
I bought my HDTV a few years ago and wanted one that was capable of handling 480p, 720p and 1080i. I made them show me, in the store, where it said it had all 3 resolutions before I handed over my cash.
I’m not saying the store is completely blameless, but your dad had certain obligations as well before handing over $3600.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:34 am
Don’t listen to any of these people. The UCC article II which governs the sale of goods deals with this directly. It applies directly to your problem and if you mention it to best buy legal or bring it to court you should receive a full refund. They violated the implied warranty of a particular purpose under UCC article II:
What is the Implied Warranty of Fitness for a Particular Purpose?
This is a warranty that is created when you seek and rely upon the expertise and advice of a sales associate in buying an item. To establish an implied warranty for a particular purpose, the buyer must satisfy two requirements: (1) At the time of contracting, the seller must have reason to know of any particular purpose for which the goods are required, and (2) the seller must have reason to know that the buyer is relying on the seller`s skill and judgment to select or furnish suitable goods. For example: Joe has decided to open up an Italian restaurant. Joe plans to have the restaurant open 15 hours a day, seven days a week. Joe needs to buy a stove that will not over-heat if left on for 15 hours at a time. Joe goes to Bob`s Stoves to purchase his stove. Joe knows nothing about stoves. When Joe meets Bob he says, “Hi! I need your help in recommending a stove.†Joe then goes on to tell Bob that any stove he buys must be able to run continually for 15 hours without over-heating. Bob states, “I have just the stove for you, the ACME 412.†Joe relies upon Bob`s expertise and buys the ACME 412. Four hours after the stove is turned on, the stove over-heats, catches on fire and quits working. In this example, the implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose has been breached.
Hope this helps.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:42 am
I have to agree with others here, you guys are also to blame here. Most sales people can be very shifty people so you should always do your own research before buying a product, especially a $3,600 one. Hopefully you guys get a new TV, if not just count this as a lesson to do your research next time.
Ross
- http://www.thehostguru.com
February 18th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Sorry, but they won’t do anything. If they do, I’ll return my 5 year old TV that doesn’t accept HDTV since they PROMISED me it would. You’ll lose in court as well since you are partially responsible for your actions.
I do feel for you. It can be very frustrating trusting someone and having them screw you, but I didn’t have my father buy that same Sony 50″ TV since it didn’t accept 1080P signals. I was confused at first, since it is a 1080P panel, but that’s the way it is.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:50 am
Where do you think you have any room to bitch?
You didn’t read the farking manual for “several months” after you bought it?
Do you expect anyone to have any sympathy whatsoever for you? Especially when your grammar and spelling are excessively awful? Then you make blog posts and try and digg and fark it to get attention to you being a crybaby that doesn’t bother to glance at your manuals?
I worked in customer service for 15 years, and you’re the second stupidest type of customer I ever dealt with.
February 18th, 2007 at 12:52 am
” The UCC article II which governs the sale of goods deals with this directly. It applies directly to your problem and if you mention it to best buy legal or bring it to court you should receive a full refund. They violated the implied warranty of a particular purpose under UCC article II:”
UCC? What communist state are you in?
February 18th, 2007 at 12:55 am
Ralph,
I have worked electronic retail for a great deal of my life, from small shops to a few of the big box stores… and yes as sad as it is to say, “Best Buy.”
I am going to let you all in on a little piece of “Hush hush” info. They are all a bunch of crooks! Don’t get me wrong I respect the role they play in the chain of useless consumer cr*p! But lets face facts here, their display cards are often wrong; not that it matters because the staff never read them. They are just their to do whatever it takes to make that sale, or to sell that extended coverage. If it means nodding their head to every question, and promising that the TV will walk the dog too, they will say it. They are force fed the concept of high sales numbers every moment of every day. It is their mantra.
Now granted this salesperson was most likely just retarded or a tool from the appliances department, but he did say that the TV was 1080p or 1080x or 1080u. At the end of the day that is the only point to be judged. He went “blah blah blah” and told a lie; and based on that lie “dad” picked up that HDTV.
Telling “dad” that he should have done his homework is a load of horse sh*t. Oh and it is smelling so very ripe I am practically gaging on it. It is not the customers duty to play field researcher on every shopping trip. There is just no way he could know everything about every HD model; but I am sure he knows the moisture levels, weight requirements, re-bar loads, and cement stress analysis of what he pours … because it is his job! If we all accept that dealing with big box outlets is like dealing with a used car salesman then tell me what profession is that behavior not acceptable in? Medical: Some doctor lets your child die but it’s ok cause you went to a walk in centre and didn’t double check the docs results. How about an airline killing your family because a member of the tarmac crew forgot to de-ice a wing. Political: The president sends you to war over oil interests or forgets their was critical flood in one of the states.
Get real here it is just plane wrong to screw someone, and it is even worse to accept it. But the real sin is to condone it. The TV is useless for “dads” needs and he expressed clearly why he wanted it and what function it should have. The staff said it would do it, and it clearly wont do it. So in my opinion “best buy” is liable. The may be even a case for a bait and switch scam.
I feel for you “dad” and your son is looking out for ya like a champ!
SPREAD THE WORD! Get this BS fixed!
February 18th, 2007 at 1:06 am
I’m not surprised Eric’s been in customer service for 15 years. He’s a total idiot.
The guy did his research. The TV was a 1080p set. He asked 3 times if the TV could accept 1080p on the appropriate inputs and the salemsan said yes. We know customer service reps lie, but to a direct, repeated question? He would’ve tested the 1080p inputs but he didn’t have a device that could provide the TV with the inputs yet. Why should he check the manual — the salesman assured him three times! Of course, if the set hadn’t had the appropriate inputs, he wouldn’t have bought it. So of course we’re to absolve the poor salesman of blame; he HAD to make the sale! No time to make sure what the sets can do — of course it accepts 1080p, and 1680p, and direct tachyon tight-beam. Poor baby. Nobody could fault him for not knowing all the features of a set he’s trying to sell. It’s only his job.
Eric, you’re an idiot. All of the blame — not partial blame, not the majority of the blame — ALL of the blame rests squarely upon the shoulders of the man who lied to make a sale. If he didn’t know, he should have said “I don’t know.”
I truly hope that the “customer service” you’re involved with involves a fry machine, because I’d hate to shop at any store where you’ve spent a decade and a half mopping the floors and soaking the customers. You are the second stupidest type of store employee I’ve ever met, surpassed only by a boss who hasn’t canned you for exposing the store to legal liability.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:07 am
The people here who are saying that it is solely your fault are talking out of their asses. Since Best Buy claims that their representative are “professionals” and ” experts” you would need to prove that the sales person misrepresented the product, either deliberately or by mistake, being sold. That said, proving that the sales person misrepresented the product is pretty much impossible since it is your word against theirs. However, you may want to see if their in store documentation is accurate. If it is not, you may have a shot. I would recommend that you continue to play the PR game. Otherwise, you still have a MUCH better TV than I do.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:07 am
Let me show you exactly where the problem started:
“He decided to stay away from the electronics superstores and shop at a specialty shop. Ken Cranes is a store that specializes in home theatre, televisions, and audio equiptment. He decided that a place like that would offer the most knowledgeable salespeople to help answer his questions. The only problem with Ken Cranes is that you often find yourself paying a little extra because they sometimes can’t match the electronic superstore prices. After several trips to Ken Cranes over a few month span, my dad decided that he had to move his search for an HDTV to the more affordable electronic superstores.”
Now, imagine why that specialty shop has trouble staying in business. You wanted their expertise, you visited them, spending time with their staff, but in the end you didn’t value that. You elected to try and get the proverbial ‘Steak for hamburger prices’. You lost. I was in CE retail management for 5 years. I watched the quality of my staff decline because you (the customer you, not you personally) didn’t feel that having a knowledgeable sales person was as important as saving 2-5%.
Now, the second problem is that, most likely, your father did not read the manual. If he had, he would have seen that the HDMI is specified to only operate at the following resolutions: 1080i, 720p, 480p, 480i (page 115). There really isn’t any excuse for not doing so, you just spent over $3,600 on a single item. You should really want to know how to use and care for it, and also see if there are any questions that you need answered in your return period.
Now, here is my suggestion on how to handle it. First, put your attitude and ego in your pocket. They won’t help the situation. Don’t act like a know it all…if you were a know it all, you wouldn’t be in this predicament. You purchased the PSP on the set, that gives you a bit of extra pull, as stores are usually more flexible with people who opt for it. The best chance you have is to go into the store, admit that it was a simple mistake, and that you should have caught it within the return policy, and offer to pay the difference for a set that is of equal or greater value that has the feature you want. This may or may not work, depending on if they have a set that meets this criteria (you would want the KDSR60XBR2).
The other option is that you accept that the TV you have is far beyond ample, and the deinterlacer in the set is of high enough quality that you will most likely not notice a difference in input resolution of 1080i vs 1080p from any normal seating distance.
Threatening legal action will get you asked to no longer converse with the store staff regarding the issue, and will almost definitely result in you losing if it does get to court.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:11 am
Oh and yes, Eric is a complete troll. UCC is Uniform Commercial Code.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:14 am
i kinda have to say that “Ralph (not my real name)” probably hasn’t tried to research and buy something like a big tv in recent days. You can do all the research you want but unless you go to the exact store you researched at chances are you will not find what you wanted. Most if not all retailers especially the big box ones, though they sell the same products, they don’t sell the same “model numbers”. so yeah you can research all you wnat finding it is the problem. You can find Model Number x HDTV at one retailer and the next one across the street will have a “comperable” device. which is to say the same model just different number. In retail that just means that store A sells “HDTV model 1″ and store B sells “HDTV model 1a”. The only difference is often only a letter or number sometimes the color of the product.
As for making human mistakes yeah it happens, but that doesn’t mean they arn’ty responsible for it, last time i checked your average consumer doesn’t receive product specs from Sony, the stores do, so asking an employ of said store is what your supposed to do. Every consumer expert even the retailers themselves TELL YOU just ask a customer service rep. So if they want you to ask and you ask and they lie to you guess what ITS NOT YOUR FAULT. Personally if retailers wanted to make more $$ it’d be nice if the store acted more like a business and less like a pawn shop. That’s one reason Ken Crane stores are still around pricey yeah, but you get what you pay for.
And blaming the customer for the stores mistakes is dumb. And yes those prooduct ID’s have the info provided by the manufaturer, but a salesperson typed it up so even they have mistakes or are often blank but i bet you they never make a mistake when they send you a bill?
And as for small claims court unless your some sort of clarvoiant dont say that they will lose, i mean really? thats like one of the most unamerican things to say. your wrong so you lose? makes me wonder if maybe you don’t work for the retailer. Salespeople ARE representatives of the store. It doesn’t matter what you are buying if a rep tells you that the carpet flys at night, guaranteed and it doesn’t the store is responsible, PERIOD.
but you know there is a point…better yet instead of suing the retailer sue the salesperson he really is the one responsible for this mess. And you know i agree with Dale send a letter to best buy, except also send a letter to sony telling them how you will never buy one of their products because of this incident. remember crooks don’t like the spotlight….ring the right bells and it will get fixed. and as for jonothan again stop blaming the consumer i mean really one day s*** will darken your sky’s and it’s gonna suck when someone tells you to “deal with it it was your fault anyways.”
February 18th, 2007 at 1:16 am
Just so you know there is no TV that does 1080p through component video. You can only get it through HDMI…. As far as getting the wrong TV, dont know what to tell you. That sucks, but like you said, you cant get anyone competent at the big retailers (whats worse is I work for one).
February 18th, 2007 at 1:24 am
I just want to make it clear that I never threatened the store with legal action. I don’t know where that is coming from. I hope that my father and the store can reach some sort of solution that makes sense for both parties.
This blog post was just attempting to gather information on how others have dealt with similar situations.
I really would like to prevent this from happening to anyone else.
At this point, I think that it would be fair for the store to offer my father the upgraded television for the price difference. It is not my choice because I didn’t buy the television.
My dad feels terrible about this and fully understands that he owns a very nice television. You just never want to feel cheated when you are making a purchase. He knows that he would not have purchased the television if he had been provided with accurate information.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:24 am
Eric,
You are the Tool of the day!
Communists would never have this problem cause the best buy staff would have been executed for their crime, and lets face it grammar aside, no self respecting red blooded man would ever read a manual. So you have to be gay right? or a woman maybe? HDMI has been a broken technology from day one. HDTV is a mine field of information but “dad” did not make a mistake in the end. He was lied to!
15 years in customer service, wow I feel sorry for the company you worked for.
Man if I ever had to deal with an ass like you I would slug you in the face with a cricket bat. How proud your mother must be. Your adopted right? Drop on your head as a child?? Repeatedly ??? On purpose?? With gusto??
And to anyone else talking trash to “dad” get it through your thick skulls …
Wrong is still wrong, even when it has a fake ID saying it right.
Kill whitey!!
February 18th, 2007 at 1:30 am
um, where exactly does he say that they’re thinking of going to small claims court? you’re all a bunch of idiots.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:32 am
The shop is definitely responsible for all information it provides for the customers. If sales people make mistakes - the shop should compensate for it. That is how legislation works in most civilized countries.
If the customer buys a product that is not suitable for him based on his own judgment, then it’s the customer who’s responsible. However, if the customer buys a product based on information from the shop, then the shop is responsible.
I agree with some posters that it is better to check and double-check for your own sake, but it is ultimately an obligation of the shop to provide a decent service. It’s not the customers’ job to be an expert in any consumer product even if it costs 10 grand.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:32 am
I agree with most of the replies here. Your father should have done more research. However, if you continue to have poor luck with the store you purchased the television from, try contacting Sony directly. Find the name and contact info of Sony’s VP of Marketing and send him/her a copy of your complaint.
I had problems with a very expensive Toshiba television and the store refused to replace it. Even though the television was a year old, after contacting several Toshiba executives, I was given a full refund.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:34 am
you’re an idiot for spending $3000 without answering your own question online in 30 seconds.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:40 am
Wow Posting is fin even “joe” can do it and say whatever trash falls out of his mouth.
Who wants some more useless information that’s off topic.
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Police called to a Long Island man’s house discovered the mummified remains of the resident, dead for more than a year, sitting in front of a blaring television set.
The 70-year-old Hampton Bays, New York, resident, identified as Vincenzo Ricardo, appeared to have died of natural causes. Police said on Saturday his body was discovered on Thursday when they were called to the house over a burst water pipe.
“You could see his face. He still had hair on his head,” Newsday quoted morgue assistant Jeff Bacchus as saying. The home’s low humidity had preserved the body.
Officials could not explain why the electricity had not been turned off, considering Ricardo had not been heard from since December 2005.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:45 am
I work for Best Buy and well the be blunt, it’s horrible company to work for. I receive an hourly of $8.75 an hour. And well for the amount of work, stress & disrespect this job provides me with, I don’t feel bad one bit telling the consumer where they can find a better deal. In fact, I do it all the time and I feel like i’m doing a good deed when I do because I know how this sad this company works and sometimes I am sickened at the things i see and how poor consumer’s are taken advantage of.
But anyway, the reason why Im posting, is to remind you to NEVER trust a big chain electronics store sales associate. ESPECIALLY if they’re commissioned. BBY associates are non-commissioned, but regardless, don’t trust them either.
DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH online before making dropping $3,600 dollar televisions. If you have questions, go to a electronics store and ask away (preferably a mom & pop style store, you ACTUALLY want knowledgeable answers remember?)
Once you have all your questions answered, head to the retailer with the best price & service and that’s it.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:53 am
FOR GOD’S SAKE PEOPLE, BUT AT COSTCO. You can return anything for any reason up to three years later. Ok… got that? BUY YOUR STUFF AT COSTCO.
Better company too, by a long shot. Treat emps good, pay well, great customer service and return policy.
Buying at “Best Buy” (
February 18th, 2007 at 1:53 am
Caveat emptor?
February 18th, 2007 at 2:16 am
For that tool that said, buy at Costco because you can rip them off. Moron.
http://consumerist.com/consumer/costco/exclusive-costco-to-make-return-policy-stricter-220616.php
Costco is making its liberal return policies stricter, according to a little birdy. Previously, you could return anything, except computers, at anytime, with or without a receipt.
Our tipster says Costco will limit returns to 30 days, citing ‘abuse.’ We called Costco and they had no idea what we were talking about, but if they were changing their policy, said Barbara, it wouldn’t be until after Jan 1.
Barbara also said that if they were changing the policy, it would be to restrict certain items, like computers, which currently have a 6-month limit on their return.
If you have any Costco merch lying around the house that you’re not feeling so hot about, Dec 31 might be the last day for you to return it. That is, if they were changing their return policy.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:17 am
Don’t listen to some of these guys. It all boils down to the salesperson giving faulty information. You can do research until your blue in the face and none of that matters if you are lied to. Court of laws protect us against that sort of nonsense and it is exactly what the UCC is for.
I would contact Best Buy corporate and see what happens. Be sure to tell them how your store gave you the runaround. If that goes no where, contact Sony. If that doesn’t work, I would take them to court. But maybe that is just me.
I’m so sick of people telling you that you should of done more research. You can do all the research in the world, but if a sales “professional” tells you something different, we tend to believe those things. Making them accountable!.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:22 am
What a great read, thanks for the heads up.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:33 am
I work at CS at a big electronic store and I agree that if said action was true that he should get the 1080p TV for the difference or at least at a reduced price. If this happened at my store, I guarantee that’s what would happen, ESPECIALLY if they got the extended warranty.
But the main problem with this sort of complaint (which we do get lots of the time) is that it’s all hear-say. You claimed that the sales dude said it was 1080p when it was not, unless the sales guy completely admits to his fault, there is no real proof. Customers are prone to lying to get what they want. I have caught many a customer lying to my face about what someone claimed to say (For example, i had a guy trying to exchange his TV that was a year old and he said the guy that sold it to him said that he could do that, I looked at the receipt and it had my name on it. I said to him “Since I sold this TV to you, I would’ve never told you this”). So like I said, it’s hard to say who was right and who was wrong. But unless it’s something completely unreasonable (which in this case it’s not) the store should be able to compensate you.
Also, let’s also relax on the name calling of the sales guy. People make mistakes all the time. Just today I dropped my pop on to my jeans, even though I think I’m an expert at carrying pop (I have 26 years of experience). In this case, I think it is a completely easy mistake to make. Even the hardened pro could’ve made it.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:34 am
lolssssssss
February 18th, 2007 at 2:38 am
Some people on here are total douche bags….your dad asked a direct question and got mis-information. Best Buy should refund you.
I hope they grow some balls and do the right thing. I’ll avoid them in the future, unless I hear you got a decent result.
Peace Middle East,
A
February 18th, 2007 at 2:41 am
P.S. Quan rules….we’d be good friends…cricket bat and all
February 18th, 2007 at 2:43 am
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/filedownload.asp?Sub=&file=KDSR50-60XBR1.pdf
page 115
Sony make it very easy to download their product manuals before you splash the cash - I’d recommend anybody thinking of purchasing a Sony item to download the manual before committing to buy the item.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:57 am
I’d check what the uniform commercial code for you state is, there is a good chance that best buy http://www.law.cornell.edu/uniform/ucc.html
In Georgia the law states that best buy would have created an expressed warranty…
11-2-313. Express warranties by affirmation, promise, description,
sample.
(1) Express warranties by the seller are created as follows:
(a) Any affirmation of fact or promise made by the seller to the
buyer which relates to the goods and becomes part of the basis of
the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall
conform to the affirmation or promise.
(b) Any description of the goods which is made part of the basis
of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall
conform to the description.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:15 am
Mr. Slick,
Much has been said and overall, both parties are at fault.
Reason 1) your dad is at fault is because he decided to save a few dollars rather than pay the extra money and go with the “most knowledgeable salespeople.”
Reason 2) is big box retailers pay the same amount for “sales professionals” as they do for janitors because people like you (me included at times) shop by price, not value in a relationship (with the retailer/company) which leads to UNINFORMED salespeople. Educating an employee takes time and money and is reflected in the final price of the item. You get what you pay for.
Reason 3) is that people make mistakes (1080p native resolution vs. actually accepting 1080p input) and your dad should have read this last manual after purchasing to verify (or check the receipt as the salesman stated.) Salespeople should know their stuff, but people who become educated by the salesperson and then go buy it where they can find it cheaper really pisses salespeople off (me included.)
Reason 1) the retailer is at fault is because the salesperson didn’t verify the information (when knowing that your dad was Extremely interested.)
Reason 2) the retailer is at fault is that if they want a returning customer (your dad) they should gladly take the tv back and replace it with a model that does support 1080p (and your father pays the difference if needed.)
Reason 3) the retailer is at fault is because any store that lies to make sales should eventually go out of business because customers get tired of the hassle of dealing with the problems caused by the retailer.
Overall, both parties are at fault. Taking it to court is a bad idea. “He said/She said” is all that will be heard. I am also a salesperson and I realize for my long term sales success I need return customers (a bad reputation spreads quickly and is hard to recover from.) If I provide great service and excellent information, I am asked for by name when my customers come in. Commission is fine if you don’t think one sale at a time. Developing a relationship is important because friends don’t sell friends junk (if they do, you don’t have a true friend.) And one last tidbit, recipients of badmouthing rarely ever makes them want to help solve the problem.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:24 am
Im kinda torn between the two. I work at BB and yeah some of the sales people there dont know their ass from a hole in the ground and if you were mis-informed then yea you should be entitled for a refund/upgrade w/ difference. but at the same token it’s been 7 months. 99.9% of retailers out there have 30 day return policies. believe it or not it is a legal document (you receipt) and after 30 days…. your basically screwed. the PSP clearly states “any manufactures defect…yadda yadda, your product will be fixed and or replaced.” it doesnt cover i was told it was this or that or i thought it did this. If companies did that for everyone every company would be out a business. But I do have sympathy for you and pops. i hope everything works out.
Ceeg
February 18th, 2007 at 3:30 am
You said the receipt would specifically state that it was a 1080p telelvision. That pretty much amounts to a contract of sale. You could, at any time, take that into court and demand
(a) The price of the TV
(b) The price of the warrantee or anything associated with it
(c) Fees for any inconvenience caused by them not fulfilling the contract.
Also, if you were able to look up the information in such detail after the sale, why didn’t you look it up for your dad before the sale?
February 18th, 2007 at 3:47 am
I used to work a best buy and I can definately see this happen. I doubt the salseman was trying to rip you off, just ignorant of the product. At my store you had about a 50/50 chance of getting a fairly informed salesperson or a total noob. This is the trick to shopping at besbuy. On the salesmans name tag it says how long they have worked there for. Look for someone that has worked there for a year or longer and most likely you will get a informed employee.(you will also get someone who tries hard to get the psp, but you can make up your own mind on that.)
February 18th, 2007 at 3:48 am
All this time i am seeing two arguments. One camp goes its the sales man’s fault. The other says its the stores fault. I work for BBY and i know which tv you are talking about cause its my dept.
Here is the problem.. when the tv first arrived it was declared as a native 1080p. Yes the tv is native 1080p so the sales person DID NOT LIE. However what the sales person did not know (because he never knew or the SONY rep didn’t mention it - cause they are 2 cent idiots who are hired from a 3rd party company) was that it didn’t take a true 1080p input.
I found that out when i plugged in a computer into the SXRD1 and sure enough it wouldn’t do 1920×1080, so i knew something was up. However most sales people go by what they are taught. Yes BBY trains them but the extent of the training does NOT involved us reading the manuals, in fact its training is very basic and if a sales guy is really interested in the technology he has to do outside readings. I do check up manuals and read information when required by a customer but most times i don’t. Little technical details aren’t something i am focusing on. The average customer is going to be more confused if i bring up technical details.. I admit i had claimed it was a 1080p model too (cause the specs state it was 1080p). Had i actually read the manual end to end, i would have known that the tv while being a native 1080p couldn’t accept a 1080p signal. So from the best buy’s placard point of view and the sales men’s information point of view everything was right. The TV is a 1080p, it just cant do it when its fed a native 1080p signal.
Anyway not all fault has to go to BB’s sales people or any big box stores sales ppl. Remember the sales staff is supported by industry reps. Who are these industry reps, ppl hired to show up, answer questions. most of these guys really don’t know much more than the training materials they are forced to memorize. I remember having a little toot with the pioneer guy because some of the claims he was making was more marketing hoopla than actual facts.
You arent the first person to complain about this particular sony model and 1080P. The day the PS3 came out, i had heard plenty of ppl complaining that teh SXRD1 wouldnt do 1080p.
I would say its more SONY’s fault for marketing it as a 1080p native and then hiding the facts in tiny fine print or deep inside a manual.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:01 am
Electronics should NOT be this difficult to buy.
Why does the average person have to take a college course to know what kind of TV to buy?!?
These electronics companies should figure out a system to HELP their customers make the right choice. These things are over and above the average user. I own a computer networking company and I will not buy an HDTV simply because I do not have the time or inclination to do the 30 hours of research!
I believe that part of the business model is to keep people confused.
I wont even tackle the poor quality issues in todays consumer electronics (and incidentally the need to buy extended warranties, which is an item that did not even EXIST 10 years ago except on cars).
I wish people would just stop buying this crap until the companies clean their acts up. Otherwise they will continue to produce the under-engineered, confusing, low-quality garbage.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:04 am
By the way buying a Sony from Best Buy???? What were you thinking?
I think they are the respective leaders in SUCK in both of their fields!
February 18th, 2007 at 4:19 am
First off, the buyer is correct in his experience and assumption that he had been maligned. He is correct within law and morality and no caveat emptor rationality will allow misrepresentation by the seller to go unpunished. You have a solid good case if your dad can prove that the sales-idiot had made those statements/affirmations otherwise, it’s up to the bench to decide who is telling the truth.
There are 2 types of responses here. Those who are within the chain-of-representation of the sales outlet and those who are on the buyers’ end. NEVER trust/believe a statement made by those on the sellers’ side, regardless of how strongly they present their ill-logic or deny their association with the seller for they have yet to present a single shred of logic but plenty of vengeful spite. Any IDIOT who rationalises that your dad is wrong in ANY way is merely dribbling urine. That is why they work there. They are the bottom feeders and within a society that is based mainly on greed/power, these are the drop-outs and this has nothing to do with whether they deserved to be in that position or not. That’s a social & conscience issue.
One reason why “the buyer is always right” is not because it is so, but because hindsight and foresight through the experience of human immorality have shown that it is best to first err on the side of the buyer than with the seller. Thereafter, the individuality of the case can then be examined in detail. Like the law saying, “Innocent until proven guilty”, unless you are French or Spanish, in which case it is the other way round. In ancient Chinese wisdom, a trader or trading is accepted as the lowest form of profession, not that the current round of Chinese commercial activity has anything to do with that. Why is trading taken in such a low esteem? Because trading is usually about greed and fear and we ALL know what these aspects normally lead to. The gutters of morality and morality is not the commonly-held misconception of fire & brimstone sort of finger-pointing religious crapola. It is about the higher awareness that innately dwells within all true humans but is seldom allowed free expression.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:28 am
It doesn’t matter, the competence of the employee - that employee can get you into a lot of trouble regarding liability. For instance, in B-School we had a case where some guy killed 20K worth of fish because he used un-treated rocks. . .and he said the employee told him the rocks were safe. . .guess what, the jury believed the clerk said that (they had no proof) and the store was out 20k.
That is a LOT less evidence then the story presented above. . .I recommend mailing a letter to the state attorney general, BBB, and CC the vice president of marketing and vice president of stores (found on the shareholder side of the webpage). That should fix things
February 18th, 2007 at 4:41 am
Don’t you guys have any protection laws over there? over here in australia the retailer would be at fault in that situation and liable for it because there information was not correct and as a result you ended up losing from it.
Worst comes to worse the best tactic i’ve seen by customers is to take the unit to the store yourself and refuse to leave until they sort the mess out. stand your ground and get this sorted.
To all the idiots who say it’s his fathers fault for not researching it grow up, there is a reason people ask “professionals” and it’s because they don’t know much about the product and wish to find out which one is best suited for them.
While i do not work for a retailer i do work for a manufacturer of consumer electronics and computer systems across the board.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:45 am
Being persistent and standing up for your rights will get a refund, and being on the front page of Digg.com does help a little in the “getting noticed” stakes.
Happily us stupid customers have rights to protect us from rude nasty people like Eric.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:51 am
[…] Mr Slick recently recounted his story of his dad buying a HDTV which apparently, according to the salesman supported 1080p on Component/HDMI input. Which they found out later it doesn’t. Yet again, shifting standards of support (HDCP or no HDCP, HDMI 1.1 vs HDMI 1.3) are causing pain to the average consumer yet again. Read about it here. […]
February 18th, 2007 at 5:08 am
I work at a So Cal Best Buy and will not include much detail cause you can bet your bottom dollar corporate is already all over this site. The dad bought the TV from the Magnolia department of the store where the higher end sets are. I can tell you that out of the half a dozen or so sales reps in that section of the store (what I call “the million dollar breakroom”) there are two really, really competent people and the rest I wouldn’t trust to sell me hair gel. Two of the professionals they hired there only had prior sales experience amounting to Macys and a mall clothing store. Would you trust someone to sell you a $3000+ set who’s only prior experience is in folding clothes or helping you pick out a nice bag for that shirt you picked out? Exactly. I’m not saying they can’t help you but it’s very unlikely you will get competent help. I can attest that sales people get NO training beyond propaganda propagated through online e-learnings. I work in computers and went in there with little information short of what I knew from watching TechTV. That helped a lot but I had to learn everything on my own. Anything and everything a customer asked and I didn’t know the answer to I went online and googled it out. Over time I am able to answer about 80% of the questions I get asked competently. The main factor is I took the initiative to learn to help to customer and to help make my job easier but I will tell you that I am an exception. How bad is incompetence at Best Buy? Well, when I shop at other stores I ignore all of the help (which is easy to do ’cause they seldom offer or sometimes they offer tooo much and that’s when a jerk manager is around). But the dad did something noble, he did the research which no customer really does. But like the son said, it was a problem that many, not even Sony, figured or advertised. I say no one is at fault but Best Buy needs to pay up and ask Sony for better information the next time around. But by the way the manager acted and lied to the dad soooo much is disgusting but sadly typical. Ah well, that’s my rant and I hope to be leaving the company sooooon :-D
February 18th, 2007 at 5:10 am
My take (not that anyone should really care)
1. “Dad” was dishonest in taking a good deal of time & expert advice from the folk in the “higher end” store that he had no intention of purchasing from.
2. Best Buy has some good prices but only if you know exactly what you want, and require only the most minimal of sales person support (as in just ringing up the transaction). I purchased my panasonicTH-50px500u at best buy, at a good price, but only after I had done my research and determined that it met my needs.
3. “Dad” & everyone else in the world should recognise that if someone will take home more in their pay packet if you spend more on product x as opposed to product y, chances are they will attempt (by any means necessary) to sell you product x.
4. CAVEAT EMPTOR.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:20 am
I’d pack the tv up as best you can, with all original boxes / packaging & cords / documentation, and bring it back to the store. You should request a refund based on the fact that the product was misrepresented to you by salespeople, and did not fully suit the purpose for which it was intended. Present them with a letter outlining this information, and leave the item in their care. If they do not provide a refund, pursue the matter via small claims court.
February 18th, 2007 at 5:28 am
This has “misrepresentation” written all over it.
Seller; though unknowledgeable was in general terms deemed to be more knowing than your dad in most situations - say an expert.
Your dad purchased on the fact (since he asked) whether or not a certain tv could display 1080p via HDMI output.
He was told yes and it wasnt.
Look up “misrepresentation” in some of the legal dicitonarys availible online.
February 18th, 2007 at 6:05 am
boo hoo, 1080i, 1080p..if you can honestly see the difference, then you should be flying stealth bombers. this actually received diggs?
February 18th, 2007 at 7:26 am
All that matters here is what J said. I don’t get why you would protect that questionable store. The law is the law no matter if they researched this or not.
Pull your heads out of your butt because if any of you had this issue you would do the same thing. We need to stand together and fight these superstores that think they can push we the consumer around. Shame on all of you for not helping this guy out and critizing him for the stores mistake. They pay these bozo’s minimum wage and train them like a bunch of monkeys.
I had a friend buy a tv from this superstore and had to take them to small claims court because he got the tv home and the crt was broke. They wouldn’t allow him to return the tv and gave him the run around. He took them to small claims court and won plus they gave him extra for time spent. They had some lady show up to defend them but she didn’t have a leg to stand on the judge ruled within 5 minutes of the hearing and he received his money shortly there after.
Good Luck
February 18th, 2007 at 7:27 am
It is sad, but you just can’t automatically trust a guy who makes $10 an hour just because he wears a blue shirt.
Unfortunately, this is a case of ‘Buyer Beware’. I worked at Best Buy for around 5 years (between the ages of 16-21) I took pride in ensuring the information I gave customers was correct because I truly cared about electronics, and was excited to see others interested in the area. Unfortunately other sales people are not as dedicated, and are simply there making their $10 an hour to put in as little work as possible.
Anytime you are buying something on the cutting edge, you need to rely on your own information. My personal technique is to shop online then go to a store a day before I’m ready to buy. Find the exact item I want, make sure it is in stock, then go home to finish my research by calling different stores, checking websites, and even in rare cases calling the manufacturer.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:18 am
It’s a case of incorrect advertisement the store is at fault for selling you something under false information, while you are similarly at fault for not researching your purchase fully and expecting a minimum wage worker to care about his job. Unfortunately that places you into the category of dumb consumer I’m afraid, and although the store should be held to account it is unlikely to happen unless you possibly take it up in a small claims court.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:00 am
Two things here. First, I hope your father paid with a credit card. Because at this point I’d be phoning the card issuer and disputing the charge.
Second, check the stores return policies. I suspect you have 30 days on large ticket items. Send it back and ask for a refund before doing what I advised above.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:02 am
What do you think the product big box electronic stores are marketing and selling ?
Think the answer is electronics ?
Think again.
The product that they are selling is “extended warranties”.
Code names “PSPS”, “ESPS”, Extended warranties….
The average life span of an employee in these stores is 3 months or less .
lol.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:02 am
LOL. You spend $4000 on what a salesman tells you? Duh. I’m a salesman. Send me $3000 and I’ll send you a great TV with everything.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:35 am
In the UK this is a non-issue. If the goods are misrepresented and/or not fit for purpose they can be returned to the seller under the 1979 Sale of Goods Act.
Do you have a similar Act or legislation in the US? I’d be surprised if you didn’t. And I think you’re right - your beef is with the store, not Sony.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Quan,
The retail store I have worked for was Best Buy also, and though I can’t say that I know about the management at other stores, but the few that I worked at, we were told to tell the truth.
Our managers trained us to give the customer their needs, and because of that, I have sent many people to Circuit City in the past because they were getting a better deal there. Circuit City is in NO way hurting Best Buy as a company, it is sad how much more industry share that Best Buy has than Circuit City.
Therefore, to build loyalty within the store, it is only right to not lie. NO ONE at Best Buy is on commission, so if you are told wrong information, it was either a mistake, or just salesperson that just had no clue about TVs.
For a non-full time position, $9 an hour is wonderful. Best Buy has many benefits that no other place has, (the discount, 401k, etc etc.) But, by all means, go work at a fast food place. It may be less stressful, but it will also cut your pay and benefits.
My whole argument besides replying respectfully to Quan, is that if Mr. Slick takes this to small claims court, he will lose. People need to stop blogging, whining, and ranting, no one is going to care.
(I still haven’t clicked on the Google Ads.)
-Ralph
February 18th, 2007 at 11:50 am
Thats why everyone should avoid Sony. They make big promises from pieces of crap.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Your dad wants a new teevee because he can’t play his playstation on his $3000 toy? And he wants a new teevee because the sales guy didn’t know what SONY didn’t know? He should have been psychic?
Dude, your family needs to get their priorities straight. First, to buy a teevee costing $3000? What a HORRIBLE waste of money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re entitled, you earned it, blah blah blah, but dude, try talking to your family and looking them in the eye instead of playing games and watching actors. That money could have been used to take a trip to see one of the many wonders of the world instead of being locked up in a dark, airless room all alone.
Nothing was misrepresented, no wrong was done at the time of the sale. The information simply wasn’t available.
If you guys have this much time and money to spend on games and teevees, you’re not enjoying life very much. Gotta keep up with the joneses!
February 18th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
It has been somewhat mentioned above, but basically, if you file this complaint with the BBB I would be very surprised if said giant chain didn’t change their tune very quickly. I have had to do this before and just the mere threat of filing a complaint with the BBB was enough for them to do a total 180 on what they were saying they were willing to do to help me out.
Your father was lied to by their store, and that is not a legal way for them to conduct their business. End of story. I suspect a large portion of the posters saying your father screwed up probably work for said chain and are just trying to sway your decision away from doing anything reasonable. Or they are all just a bunch of morons who don’t mind getting screwed over by corporations.
You and your father have rights. Tell the store you are going to first file a complaint with the BBB. If that doesn’t change their tune, actually file a complaint with the BBB who will then contact the store for you. I would be amazed if this tactic didn’t work as how the story is told the store is clearly at fault, and it is a lot easier to do than actually take them to court (something you don’t actually seem interested in doing anyways).
February 18th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Heh, so you first say the sales people are not knowledgeable then you buy one from them because he says 1080p is supported on that hdmi.
While such information is very easily obtained from internet or even the manual of the tv itself… i don’t see why the shop should be sued for your faulty buy. Agreed the salesman made a mistake in his answers to your dads question. But this will not hold up in court long.
Even if it does it’s just lame to sue them…
If i were you i would drop the issue and watch better next time you buy expensive stuff :)
February 18th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
I was gonna say that your price sounded a little cheap for it to be a 1080p Sony. But anyway, I personally think that 1080p’s are not worth the money right now because even though the PS3 supports it, alot of the games are 720p and 1080i.
And as far as a SONY, I found that a few of my friends have had problems with theirs and would never buy another SONY.
I have a 1080i Sharp Aquos and I LOVE IT!! I would highly reccomend it to anyone!
February 18th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
p.s. you also should have looked at the BOX and seen that it didnt support 1080p….
February 18th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
was this son there at the store when the father bought this tv? From what i’ve read, it seems as though he were not.
to me…this sounds like months after the TV was in th home and it was realized the V didn’t accept 1080p input, the father says “but the guy told me it did”
i don’t believe for a second the father had the wherewithall to ask before purchase whther or not the set accepted 1080p input via hdmi and if he did have such wherewithall, considering that is now being regarded as his MAIN FOCUS on purchasing the TV, you would think, with akll his research, he would have known walking into the store.
your pops made a mistake.
suck it up.
loser.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
I feel bad for you, but you dropped the guys who knew or more likely knew what they were talking about just for a potential discount.
You waited for much longer than 30 days and at this point it’s unprovable that the salesperson misinformed you.
The story is plausible, but not provable.
Good luck. You have a nice TV.
Stop shopping at places like Best Buy w/ their part-time 3 month cycle employees.
Everyone needs to understand that those discounts mean you are losing something.
The court thing might work especially since small claims judges are sympathetic towards the individual vs. big businesses.
Personally, I think it’s your fathers fault and you are “milking” this in a pathetic google ads attempt.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Nobody is addressing how he could do research better. Obviously he should have done ‘more’ research, but how? He spoke with shifty salesman and read online reviews/rants by shills/people with an axe to grind.
He had a list of requirements and bought a tv that did meet one of them. That is his fault, but it was still an easy mistake to make. He probably knew everything about tvs except for the difference between a 1080p and a 1080i.
The psychology of buyer’s remorse with big ticket items is interesting. It happens with big ticket item like a car or house, but I never hear an outpouring of support for them in the technology-centered digg world. People spend months researching, make a decision, change that decision on a whim at the dealership/closing , then regret it forever. Happens all the time.
February 18th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
sean writes: Nobody is addressing how he could do research better. Obviously he should have done ‘more’ research, but how?
how about by doing before the purchase, what he did after the purchase.
the son was able to find the spec sheet and have his question answered online AFTER the fact, which could have been done just as easily before.
jelly
February 18th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
I do not believe that I have google ads on this post.
The only ads are keyword based Amazon ads that a run off of a Wordpress script. They were not optimised for this post at all. I just happend to use some of the same keywords that were used in an earlier post.
February 18th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Wow, you people are incredibly mean to this guy. I personally have the 50″ of this TV, and while it looks great, was deceived by some documentation that said it displayed 1080p. Why on earth would you have a native resolution that you didn’t accept via HDMI? I never thought of it, because it would seem illogical to upscale.
Nevertheless, the TV is awesome, despite the fact it doesn’t do 1080p. Oh wells!
February 18th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
Ok people listen up… its not a question of the sales person being competent or whatnot… it comes down to the fact that upon being asked a simple question, the sales person gave his dad the wrong answer… if the sales person was not sure.. he would need to say so… not claim certain things based on assumptions he is making. As far as I can tell… even though your dad should have done more research… I believe that you will get reimbursed as long as you let them know you mean business. The bottom line is simple… upon asking a question… a wrong answer was given that led to the purchase of an item… so the weather or not all sales persons in the universe are incompetent - if they directly were responsible for the purchase of something you didn’t want … the blame rests on them. I mean.. what if you went to a restaurant and asked the person… let me get something that has chicken, and then the waiter tells you.. oh yea try this item that is the best chicken dish we serve… and when you get the item.. its made of beef not chicken… OUTRAGED i sure hope so… Last time i checked we lived in the US of A…. what the hell is all this idiot sympathy coming from?
February 18th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
If you wanted expert help, you should have shopped at Ken Cranes. I think you know that stores like BB may have lower prices but the sales people are basically there to sell extended warranties. If “true 1080p” were such an important feature, why didn’t you test it until “months later”? If you must buy from BB, at least test out the set when you get it home, so you can return it right away if there is a problem. Failing that, buy with a card like Amex that gives you return protection up to 90 days after a purchase.
February 18th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Of course this is the retailer’s fault.
The father did do research. He “asked” a bunch of people and places. The final, and most important bit of research he did was when he asked the salesperson about the TV he was just about to buy from him.
That being said, I disagree with anyone who says he should have done more research. In fact, I would say he is not responsible for doing any research at all.
I believe a good analogy for the currently posed question would be:
“Dad” goes to visit a city that he is unfamiliar with. He “fails” to research the bad areas of the city. When he goes there, he happens to go into a bad area and gets mugged.
You aren’t going to tell me “Dad” shouldn’t go to the police because it is his own fault for not finding out more about the city he is travelling to, are you? He legally, deserves to get his wallet back, right?
The original question isn’t talking about what “common sense” might dictate, rather what is the law dictates. Perhaps some would suggest that the father had done more research, but the law says he is entitled to get accurate information from the salesperson, and if the salesperson misrepresents that information, whether intentionally or not, the retailer is at fault.
There is no question legally, that the retailer is at fault in this situation, and you would absolutely win in court (assuming you could prove it).
Don’t listen to the people who say you would lose in court. They apparently have very little knowledge of how the legal system works. To there surprise, it is actually based on law, and not there own distorted view of the world. Lucky for you, the law is in your favor, and their distorted view of the world is completely irrelevant .
February 18th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Harry,
Thanks for the information. I knew that I would have many negative comments from people calling us idiots and saying that we should have done more research. That is the nature of the beast. I never expected to hit the frontpage of Digg. I was just hoping to get some suggestions and thoughts from the tech savvy Digg users. 50 negative for every helpful comment isn’t so bad. I appreciate you taking the time to leave information that I can actually use.
I appreciate your feedback in this matter.
February 18th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
This happened to me the first time I bought a DVD player (back when they were about $350 or so…).
It was nearly a year later when I discovered that the explicitly requested feature — the ability to play home-burned VCDs — was not present on that model.
I was extremely impressed when the Circuit City store where I bought it exchanged it for a newer model that did play them _nearly a year after the original purchase_! (I name the store because this is a *good* story ;) ) I learned not to trust the salespeople, but they did make it right when a mistake was made.
That being said… the best I would suggest would be to take them to court. Unfortunate that there is no way to prove what you were told at the store when you bought the TV. If they claim they never said it….
February 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
All it would have taken was a little research on your dad’s part. All you have to go on is that you SAY that the salesperson said it had 1080p, but you have no proof of such. Anyone could have buyers remorse after the fact, and then make up a story about how the evil salesperson lied to you, that doesn’t make it true. The only way this should even have a chance of being “fixed” would be if you had it in writing or something from the salesperson.
February 18th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Are you aware the the upconverted 1080i to 1080p picture will look exactly the same as a 1080p picture? The only difference is the order the pixels are sent in. The end result is the same. The wikipedia page has more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p
February 18th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
He Hate Me: Interlacing is a terrible way of displaying a picture and is only really half of it’s advertised res at any given time but your eyes are *usually* that slow that you don’t notice.
Here in australia we weren’t punished with such a terrible standard and looking at an interlaced picture makes me want to stab the inventor.
February 18th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
if you want bestbuy to take it back,Must be within 30 days of purchase), find a way to break the tv, either by short circuiting it, or opening it up and disconnecting some cables, then u can exchange it or return it as defective.
February 18th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
Your summary is missing 2 “not”s. Can you find where they’re missing?
Without these “not” words, your summary makes no sense.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:13 am
It’s can’t be said enough. NEVER “ask the sails rep” at the store. Research online, then find the store with the best price… The Internets are your friend.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:23 am
Dude .. you started off saying you went to a PRO store but ended up at a chain. Sounds to be like you screwed yourself. Specialty store would of been way more useful.
February 19th, 2007 at 1:25 am
O and another thing is its your bad for buying into 1080p .. its a bunch of BS! i rant and rave about Sony this and Sony that all the time. Dont buy SONY SHIT
February 19th, 2007 at 1:26 am
Matt Harlum:
The upconverted 1080i to 1080p picture is not interlaced. The television captures both fields and displays them as one progressive frame. Read the link I provided.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p
“The following examples refer to content that is encoded in progressive-scan form during recording or transmission—what would be considered “native” progressive signals. However, where 24 fps film-based material is concerned, a 1080i encoded/transmitted stream can become a true “1080p” signal during playback by deinterlacing to re-combine the split field pairs into progressive film-scanned frames. Regarding 24 fps film-source material presented in conventional 1080i60 form, the deinterlacing process that achieves this goal is usually referred to as “3:2 pulldown reversal” [also known as “inverse telecine”]. The importance of this is that, where film-based content is concerned, all 1080-interlaced signals are potentially 1080p signals given the proper deinterlacing. As long as no additional image-degradation steps were applied during signal mastering (such as excessive vertical-pass filtering), the image from a properly deinterlaced film-source 1080i signal and a native-encoded 1080p signal will look approximately the same. It should be noted that Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD sources are 1080p with no vertical filtering, therefore, 1080i output from players can be perfectly reconstructed to 1080p with 3:2 pulldown reversal.”
February 19th, 2007 at 2:12 am
[…] My dad purchased an HDTV from one of those electronic superstores and because the sales professional gave him false information, he purchased the wrong $3600 television. Here is the story. Please DIGG and provide suggestions on how to get them to make things right. The store says that it is not their problem. An HDTV is a must for all home theater enthusiasts, so it was no surprise that my father wanted to get one. My dad loves movies and really considers them to be some of his true passions. He works long hours as a cement finisher and saved for many years in order to be able to afford an LCD rear projection HDTV. He shopped around for several months trying to find a good deal. In July of last year he found an HDTV that looked great. He knew exactly what he wanted, but he noticed that the salespeople didn’t always know what they were talking about. He decided to stay away from the electronics…….read more | digg story Permalink […]
February 19th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Sony deserves some of the blame here. Why make a 1080p native resolution set that can’t accept 1080p input? It’s illogical and understandable that a salesperson and the customer could easily be confused. The fact that Sony has a later model that fixes this anomaly makes the point. They should have known that people buy HD TV’s anticipating the inputs that the latest tech will provide, even if it isn’t here today.
That said, I recently bought an LCD after a great deal of research. I decided NOT to get a 1080p set after finding out that the human eye can’t distinguish the difference between 720p and 1080p resolution unless you are very close (within 5 feet) to the a typical sized (37″-42″) screen or it is very big (more than 65″ wide). For most people, this won’t be the case. Your eyes won’t be able to see the difference.
February 19th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
grats on your pos tv lulz.
February 19th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Bought the same TV, incredible picture, but had a big argument with a sales person about this 1080P/1080i issue…He did not know the difference and claimed that this TV did accept 1080P….anyway I had read the spec !
February 20th, 2007 at 5:51 am
Let me say first off that, son, you really do know how to ramble on. Perhaps some day you will learn how to make a paragraph.
Now, back on topic:
Let’s see, your Dad went shopping for a HDTV, and went repeatedly to a store that specializes in the field. However, succumbing to greed, he took the information that the store’s knowledgable employees offered him and ran off to the nearest Best Buy. No, wait, he actually spent and entire day going to every low-ball discount house in the entire range of a full gas tank. Check.
He then took the advice of an employee of said extreme-profit-margin-squeezing store, and bought the wrong TV. He kept said TV for quite a few months, and then figured out it wasn’t exactly what he asked for.
Now the store, whom he specifically chose for being cheapskates and passing the savings on to him, refuses to take back a 6 month old TV that he bought by mistake, that they would have to take a loss on equal to the profit of selling about 30 more of these TVs.
Had he gone to the guys who make their living on the subject, and whose time he wasted many times in the past, it would have cost him another $400. If he ever had a problem chances are they would be not wasting his time by not showing up when they said they would, and probably admitting their mistakes, if they made one in the first place, which they probably wouldn’t have, because they do this for a living and have a reputation to maintain amongst those who know why they spend the extra $400 in the first place (hint: to avoid being in your predicament), or they starve.
Now he has found out his clever outsmarting of the market, the world, and his dumb neighbor who overpaid for his HDTV that happens to work perfectly, simply didn’t work this time. He’s out a few thou, basically on depreciation and the cost of a TV that actually does what he wants, or he can eat the TV and live with his mistakes.
All this, mind you, over the quality of the 1080p signal on a game console versus the quality of Sony’s 1080i to 1080p upscaler, which is probably pretty good to begin with. Do you guys actually “see” differences, or are you miffed because in theory, something might not be as good as possible?
Anyway, this might be news to you and your dad, but before June 2006 the TV you wanted (accepts and displays 1080p signals) were not even available in US stores, and over the last 6 months, are only beginning to trickle in from various manufacturers, more or less one model or two in the line at a time.
Hopefully that’s not news to you. It sounds like, though, that since it’s February 07 as I read this, and you’ve had the TV for what sounds like six months or so, chances are the TV you wanted to buy in the first place at the time you were ready to buy probably only existed in the inventory of the specialty store you shunned, and even Best Buy would probably have charged list price on such a rare model, if they had one then. Which I doubt.
Live and learn, son. Enjoy the TV.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:02 am
” … At the time of purchase, it was very difficult to find any 1080p source material. …”
Difficult? Try impossible. It simply did not exist then. That’s why the TVs needed to display them have been on the market, with one or three models, at the very most expensive range of the line, in very short supply, for somewhere between 8 months and “we don’t make them yet”, depending on the manufacturer.
It sounds like, miraculously, you and your Dad are on the verge of getting something from Best Buy. Run, don’t walk, and take them up on the offer, and consider yourself lucky.
February 20th, 2007 at 8:25 am
This is the reason why I do all my research up front. Never, ever, ever trust a an Electronics store salesman for all details. They are just there to make the deal. You should have accompanied your dad to the stores when he was shopping.
February 20th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Hm, you were sold a product that you were told would do something and it doesn’t do it, how is that not fraud???
February 20th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
@Johnny2Bad - I think that I must have given you the ramble virus.
Just kidding…you make an interesting point.
February 21st, 2007 at 7:06 pm
You are a retard, quit bitching I dont care if you are stup